
Traveller-digest     Thursday, October 28 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1269



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Another game company bites the dust
Newtsuit (was: Re: Freezing in the Aleutians)
Re: Honoring J. Andrew Keith...
Re : Antimatter drives
Re: Mining the TML 
Re: Re Level 0 and CT
Re: Another game company bites the dust
Re: Another game company bites the dust
Re: Freezing in the Aleutians
Re: Another game company bites the dust
Re: Another game company bites the dust
Re: Another game company bites the dust
Re: Email goof-ups
Re: Another game company bites the dust
Re: Antimatter Drives
re: GURPS Vehicle Starship Design: LF-78 Light Freighter
Re: Just say "no" to lhy for Jump drives
New e-mail address for Jesse
Re: Antimatter drives
Re: Frame Strength (was BD Crush Depth)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:48:48 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Another game company bites the dust

Shimmergloom wrote:
> 
> Well, ok.  but there has been no official announcement of who the purchaser was
> as of yet... at least no on the WW site.
> 
> "Kelly St.Clair" wrote:
> 
> > (snip - White Wolf bought? say it ain't so!)
> >
> > Don't believe everything you read.  (Of course, that applies equally well
> > to this counter-rumor.)  A fairly reliable source notes that the
> > "purchasing" site is registered to WW as well, and is featured in their new
> > RPG release, HUNTER: The Reckoning.  (The site in question being
> > http://www.anonymous-liberty.com .)

Well, according to the _Pyramid_ Web site, the sale is indeed a hoax to
stir up interest in Hunter: The Reckoning.
> >
> > In other words, this could all be yet another big half-baked WW publicity
> > stunt.

So it would seem.  I would question, however, whether the term
"half-baked" really applies.  After all, it got some discussion even on
a non-WOD mailing list such as this.  Seems to have worked, IMHO....

- -- 
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:47:49 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Newtsuit (was: Re: Freezing in the Aleutians)

Dear Folks -

Steven asked:
>>The scout expedition dress on page 32 of "First In" has a crush depth
>>of 250 yards listed.
>
>FWIW, does anyone know the listed max. operating depth on the current
>model Newtsuit?

I can't find a Web site for this company, but here are the details of the
company that makes the Newtsuit:

=====================
Hard Suits Incorporated

      Products/Services: ADS (Atmospheric Diving Suits), Newtsuits, and support
equipment.

      Hard Suits Incorporated is a manufacturing and servicing company that
provides diving equipment support services to
      the military and offshore oil and gas industries.

      Export Market: United Kingdom, USA, Italy, Germany, France, Japan,
Australia.
      Export Interest: Southeast Asia, South America.

      Contact: Gina George

      Address: 3-1125 East Keith Road, North Vancouver, British Columbia V7J 1J3
      Tel.: (604) 986-5600         Fax: (604) 986-7125
=====================

Here is the URL for Nuytco, the suit's designers:
     http://www.eskimo.com/~nuytco/index.html

     Nuytco Research Ltd.
                                                Phil Nuytten, President
                                               241A East First St. (rear)
                                            North Vancouver, B.C. V7L IB4
                                                   604.980.6262
                                                   604.980.6236
                                                   nrl@direct.ca

I can see a pic of the suit, but no specs!!!

Perhaps one of our BC Canadians could phone Gina or Phil for the data??
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:13:24 +1000
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au>
Subject: Re: Honoring J. Andrew Keith...

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au>
To: <traveller@mpgn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: Honoring J. Andrew Keith


> Dear Folks -
>
> Can I throw my hat into the ring? The best suggestion I have seen so far
is Jeff
> Zeitlin's.
>
> Either create the "J. Andrew Keith"-class as a class of IISS survey
vessels, OR
> name a single large IISS vessel as the "J. Andrew Keith" (my personal
> preference).
>
> If the latter is chosen, can I add weight to the AHL choice? I think it is
*the*
> canonical "large Traveller vessel", even more so than the Tigress - it is
more
> detailed, had complete plans done, and has a full history. This attention
to
> detail is a hallmark of the Keith brothers' work, and here is a way it can
be
> honoured.
>

This makes sense because of the detail involved, makes it much more of a
tribute because it has that "3rd dimension" of background as opposed to a
set of stats and a short slapshot of text.  I must admit, that my former
Traveller group would know right away what I was talking about if I
mentioned an AHL, but would probably scratch their heads in wonderment at
what a Tigress was.  The lad that currently has my Traveller gear (who is
into the "big is better" or the "more fire power the better" and other
number crunching, maximising schools of thinking) asked me what a Tigress
was and he is still playing CT, but he sure knows and loves the old AHL.

However, I also like the idea of a system coming of age with the naming of a
world in Andrew's honour by removing it's former survey numbers.  And I
don't see why both can't happen with the Emperor awarding these in tribute
and honour of someone the Emperor thought of as a close friend who had
worked ceaselessly for the good of the Imperium unto his recent death.  The
Emperor is said to be deeply affected by the loss of such an esteemed
Citizen of the Imperium.

- -- The Roc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:14:15 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Antimatter drives

Charles Collin wrote :-
> I've been thinking about antimatter drives.  How would they work?
Antihydrogen is the most likely form of antimatter to be used in this
application.

Anthony Jackson has described the two basic concepts :-
1. Annihilation drive, where antimatter is combined with an equal amount
of matter to produce a stream of pions, muons, gamma photons, and
neutrinos.
	The problem with this drive type is the low thrust - it's really a form
of photon rocket (as Anthony has also pointed out).
	Proposed focussing strategies involve magnetic nozzles with
field strengths in the fusion reactor range.

2. 'Dilution drive' : where small amounts of antimatter are combined
with matter to produce thrust.
	Peter Trevor has mentioned the excellent stories and articles by Rob
Forward which deal with near-tech AM rockets.
	In one proposed design, the particles produced by annihilation are
generally used to heat a block of tungsten or some similar metal, which
heats the fuel stream (hydrogen). This is similar to the solid core
fission rocket.
	Similarly, a gaseous or liquid core concept could be adapted to
antimatter annihilation.
	Yet another option is to magnetically confine a fusion plasma.

	Some points to consider :-
- - Propellant mass can be as little as four times rockets dry mass
(compared with ~100X for chemical rockets);
- - Sample fuels : 3mg AM to 1400g prop (Isp of 8783) - up to 3g/1400g
(Isp 278K) for maximal acceleration, assuming 1% of annihilation energy
is used to heat and eject fuel.
	Isp refers to specific impulse - the thrust per unit weight flow rate
of propellant ; the best chemical rockets have an Isp of 400-450
seconds. (The values given above are for the fuels themselves ; proposed
near-tech AM fusion rockets have an Isp of 5000-15000 seconds).
	Isp increases with the square root of the proportion of annihilation
energy used to heat and eject fuel - so if 100% of the annihilation
energy was used, Isp would be increased by a factor of 10.

You may be able to get a pdf copy of NASA Technical Memo #107030 from
the NASA website. This is a little equation heavy, but is chock full of
useful data about fission, fusion and antimatter drives.

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:19:05 -0400
From: Rob Brady <robb@datatone.com>
Subject: Re: Mining the TML 

At 04:03 AM 10/26/99 -0400, Keven wrote:
>Um, yes he *can* teach Instruction.  But if that's how he makes his money, 
>he *won't* teach it.

Book 4 states "Players cannot teach the instructional skill to other
players." I guess I misread that.

- --
"Nobody knows who they were or what they were doing but they were
definitely running Unix ..." -- Heidi Pollock on WebMonkey.com
Rob Brady                                robb at datatone dot com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:24:16 -0400
From: Rob Brady <robb@datatone.com>
Subject: Re: Re Level 0 and CT

At 04:45 PM 10/26/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Funny, every version of CT I've seen has 0-level skills.... see weapons
>expertise (Traveller Book, p21) and the section on default skills, (ibid,

The version of CT I bought at age 11 or 12 came in a small black box that
contained 3 books. I don't own anything called "Traveller Book".

>p29). Besides, Instruction is not available unless you use Supp 4, Bk 4,
>Bk5, bk6 or bk 7.

True.


- --
At last, extensive rules for the personnel and starships of the
interstellar navies of the universe.
Rob Brady                              robb at datatone dot com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:28:11 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Another game company bites the dust

Well, yes.  But it has also ticked some people off.  Me for one.


Black ICE wrote:

> Shimmergloom wrote:
> >
> > Well, ok.  but there has been no official announcement of who the purchaser was
> > as of yet... at least no on the WW site.
> >
> > "Kelly St.Clair" wrote:
> >
> > > (snip - White Wolf bought? say it ain't so!)
> > >
> > > Don't believe everything you read.  (Of course, that applies equally well
> > > to this counter-rumor.)  A fairly reliable source notes that the
> > > "purchasing" site is registered to WW as well, and is featured in their new
> > > RPG release, HUNTER: The Reckoning.  (The site in question being
> > > http://www.anonymous-liberty.com .)
>
> Well, according to the _Pyramid_ Web site, the sale is indeed a hoax to
> stir up interest in Hunter: The Reckoning.
> > >
> > > In other words, this could all be yet another big half-baked WW publicity
> > > stunt.
>
> So it would seem.  I would question, however, whether the term
> "half-baked" really applies.  After all, it got some discussion even on
> a non-WOD mailing list such as this.  Seems to have worked, IMHO....
>
> --
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
> "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

- --
- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:42:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: Another game company bites the dust

> Well, yes.  But it has also ticked some people off.  Me for one.

What do you expect from a bunch of arrogant B******* that think they're the
one true RPG and that anyone that plays other games, but not thiers are a
bunch of loosers?  Thier attitude turned me off a LONG time ago.

			Zane

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:43:41 -0600
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com>
Subject: Re: Freezing in the Aleutians

>>>Well... have you ever drank a slurpee too fast through a straw? That's
>>>what breathing Minot air is like. ;-) Imagine, some people ENJOY
>>>living there!
>>
>> My first night on the 'Z, I could hear my breath freeze.  Up until that
>> point in my life, the concept of "too cold to snow" was an alien one..
>
>For cold worlds, or even cold areas on worlds, you can always swipe the
>native name for an area in Siberia. I don't remember the original, but
>it translates as "Land where the piss freezes from the ground up".
>
>Now *that* is an image to to make your players appreciate "cold"!

Two words: "Rura Penthe". 

For those few of you who don't recognize the reference, it's the
Klingon prison planet to which Kirk and McCoy were sent in Star Trek
VI. It also bears a surprising resemblance to the weather here in
Edmonton in the middle of the winter -- we usually get a short stretch
of weather where the overnight low hits or passes -40. 

- -- g




     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
        "There is no longer any normal to be"
                                 -- Gary Numan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:48:11 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Another game company bites the dust

Well, yea.  I have to agree that WW's arrogance has made me not like them as
people for the most part.  but the system is still cool.


"Zane H. Healy" wrote:

> > Well, yes.  But it has also ticked some people off.  Me for one.
>
> What do you expect from a bunch of arrogant B******* that think they're the
> one true RPG and that anyone that plays other games, but not thiers are a
> bunch of loosers?  Thier attitude turned me off a LONG time ago.
>
>                         Zane

- --
- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:09:23 -0400
From: "Thomas Schoene" <TomSchoene@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Another game company bites the dust

- ----------
> From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>

> Well, according to the _Pyramid_ Web site, the sale is indeed a hoax to
> stir up interest in Hunter: The Reckoning.

Better, check the White wolf site ( http://www.white-wolf.com ), where they
admit the same.

> > >
> > > In other words, this could all be yet another big half-baked WW
publicity
> > > stunt.
> 
> So it would seem.  I would question, however, whether the term
> "half-baked" really applies.  After all, it got some discussion even on
> a non-WOD mailing list such as this.  Seems to have worked, IMHO....
 
I don't know about that.  It's convinced me that I don't want to even look
at Hunter: the whatever, even though it was the one WW concept that seemed
vaguely interesting to me.  Seems like their stunt backfired.

Tom Schoene

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:05:54 -0500
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net>
Subject: Re: Another game company bites the dust

Sorry to ruin everyone's day, but the  WW buy out is a hoax.
TOday the site claims that th e Libertarians bought them.
Too bad.

TV
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------------
"The dumber you seem to be, the more surprised they'll be when you kill
them."
- -----Original Message-----
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: Another game company bites the dust


>Well, yea.  I have to agree that WW's arrogance has made me not like them
as
>people for the most part.  but the system is still cool.
>
>
>"Zane H. Healy" wrote:
>
>> > Well, yes.  But it has also ticked some people off.  Me for one.
>>
>> What do you expect from a bunch of arrogant B******* that think they're
the
>> one true RPG and that anyone that plays other games, but not thiers are a
>> bunch of loosers?  Thier attitude turned me off a LONG time ago.
>>
>>                         Zane
>
>--
>----------------------------------------------
>he he he he he he he he he he he he
>
>      Shimmer
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:20:30 -0400
From: "Tim Reynolds" <tim@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Email goof-ups

> Ahem.  We have a few people (including one or two who claim to have
> computer 3+ :-) who do not seem to know how to use their email progs. I
> think the culprits mostly are using MS Outlook Express.  If you are using
> MSOE, change the setting to 'text only'.  No HTML. No digital sigs.  No
> attachments.  These things show up as massive blobs of nonsense text in
> the digest version of the TML.
> 
> Sorry the above sounds a little crochety, need more coffee.... :-)
> 
> Have a good one,
> Charles C.

Ok I fixed  it... Do I get EP t o raise my skill level to three : )

> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:30:53 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Another game company bites the dust

Cool.  Actually this makes me feel much better.  Now I can continue with my
plans to buy White Wolf.


rofl


Thomas Schoene wrote:

> ----------
> > From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
>
> > Well, according to the _Pyramid_ Web site, the sale is indeed a hoax to
> > stir up interest in Hunter: The Reckoning.
>
> Better, check the White wolf site ( http://www.white-wolf.com ), where they
> admit the same.
>
> > > >
> > > > In other words, this could all be yet another big half-baked WW
> publicity
> > > > stunt.
> >
> > So it would seem.  I would question, however, whether the term
> > "half-baked" really applies.  After all, it got some discussion even on
> > a non-WOD mailing list such as this.  Seems to have worked, IMHO....
>
> I don't know about that.  It's convinced me that I don't want to even look
> at Hunter: the whatever, even though it was the one WW concept that seemed
> vaguely interesting to me.  Seems like their stunt backfired.
>
> Tom Schoene

- --
- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:10:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Antimatter Drives

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:

>Power output is the energy output of the drive.  A reasonable antimatter 
>annihilation drive is probably on the order of 1 newton of thrust per 
>ton of drive (capable of 1/10,000th G) so yes, it's 'low thrust'

Why?  The info from what I've read by folks like Robert Forward suggest
you'd be doing a whole lot better than that with antimatter, or even
fusion for that matter. 

Heck, a drive using 1 part antimatter and 50 parts hydrogen will net you a
specific impulse around 10 times that of the best fusion rocket, and all
you're doing is heating reaction mass and shooting out the back.  If we
have the degree of control of magnetic fields necessary to control and
contain large quantities of anitmatter, then we could use these same
magnets to protect the nozzles and reaction chamber.  Sounds like a whole
lot better than 1 newton/ton to me. 


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:08:13 -0500
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@truserve.com>
Subject: re: GURPS Vehicle Starship Design: LF-78 Light Freighter

John Buston wrote:
> GTL10 I presume.
Yep, forgot to write that.

> Sealed?
Ditto. Did it, forgot to list it.

> 5 million miles. P47, Communicators, 2nd para. 10x range in space.
> 10 million miles. Ditto.
> Both have 10x range in space, +6 scan.
> AESA p52 2nd col para 1. PESA p54 para 2.

Yes, I was aware of the x10 rule - but in the example descriptions in the
Vehicles book (the scout ship), they list the base ranges, not the x10
vacuum ranges. So I listed the base ranges.

> pop turret rotation space? p16
Its a normal turret, not a pop turret - and yes, I added the rotation
space - I just didn't list it. You think I should?

>>ECM: Radar/laser detector.
> 2 is standard.
Hmmmm...easy to change...

>Armoured passage tube ?
Nope. This is a merchant ship, not an assault craft or rescue vehicle. I
figure that anything it's going to dock with (starports, customs vessels,
rescue craft, and even pirates) will have the tube - so I saved space and
money. But it would be easy to add - since I've got the empty space.

> >3,336 cf access space,
> 1300 for the thrusters, 488 for the fusion reactor. What else?
Contra grav and jump drive. And I've got more space for the thrusters...did
I forget to note that they are vectored?

> >Empty space 2121.043cf .
> Why?
Common areas. Galleys. Hallways. The cabin volume seemed insufficient to
me - especially since on my deckplans there are two decent sized common
areas.

Thank you very much for your comments - please keep them coming...

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@truserve.com - http://www.truserve.com/~igor/           |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
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|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e++ h---- r+++ y++++                          |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:25:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Just say "no" to lhy for Jump drives

> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:27:59 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
> 
> John Buston writes:
> 
> > If by that you mean precipitated out at the 0.01G limit and can jump from
> > the 0.01G limit, then note that this is less than 4 diameters out for
> > Earth. Gravity halves with every planetary radius step you take. This vastly
> > speeds up transit times and makes planetary defence even harder. 
> 
> Um.. get your physics right.  Gravity is divided by the square of the
> distance, .01 Gs is at 10 diameters from a planet with a 1G surface
> gravity. 

Rule one for surviving a science argument with your ego intact:  Don't
make a direct accusation of error unless you are very very sure of
yourself.  Rule two:  Don't, even then. 

The 1 G distance is 1 *radius*, or half a diameter (that is, on the
surface). Thus the .01 G distance is at 10 radii from the center of earth,
or 9 radii from the surface, meaning 5 or 4.5 diameters out depending on
how you measure 'out'.  This is still a bit higher than John's figure --
which leaves me wondering if *I* have blown this, somehow -- but it's
closer to his than to yours. :)

- -- 
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--  http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |   "They do not preach that their God will rouse them
      a little before the nuts work loose." - Kipling

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:37:07 -0700
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: New e-mail address for Jesse

If you've got bookmarks pointing to my fenris@slip.net e-mail, can you
please change them to my new address from my DSL account, which is
jdegraff@pacbell.net

Thanks!  We now return you to your normally scheduled discussions.

Jesse

p.s.  The old account will be active for a little while, but will be
discontinued within a month.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:47:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Antimatter drives

In mail you write:

>>But then I got to wondering, isn't most of the energy produced
>>going to be in the form of gamma rays and other "high energy"
>>forms?  How easy is it to "redirect" this?  How much thrust
>>would you get by forcing this out the back of the ship? Do you
>>need reaction mass?
>
>         This touches on a question that I have mulled over.  What
>         sort of thrust do you get if your reaction mass is expelled
>         at near c?

The specific impulse (Isp) is determined *strictly* by the exhaust
velocity ve).

Ve/(9.8 m/s^2)=Isp

*Thrust* is determined by the *rate* at which you use fuel, and by the
Isp or Ve.

So even with a near C exhaust velocity, the *thrust* depends on *how
much* exhaust per second you produce. Note that producing an exhaust of
"luxons" (particles that always travel at c, such as photons) is only
half as efficient as producing "normal" particles particles. 

One way of looking at this is that in a "normal rocket" most of the
particles bounce off the nozzle before being re-directed out the
nozzle. This gives *twice* the impulse per particle as having them
merely stream out the back of the vessel.

Compare the impulse you get by throwing a ball off the end of the
typical physics experiment "frictionless sled" with what you get from
having the same ball at the same speed *relative to the sled* approach
the sled and bounce off the back.

A photon drive where an *external* source of photons is bounced off a
mirror at the back of the ship gets double the impulse. At least until
the velocity gets high enough that the beam is badly red-shifted.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:23:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Frame Strength (was BD Crush Depth)

In mail you write:

>> > I have been trying to figure the frame strength required for ships given 
> a
>> > G rating. 
> <snip>
>> Given other formulae, a relatively realistic max thrust for an 
>> uncompensated ship is 0.1 tons per body hit point.
>
> Shouldn't the mass of the ship be factored in there as well?
>
> Very small objects, like missiles lose 

Which is *very* anti-reality. In the real worl, missiles have been
built with accelerations in the 100 to *1000* g range. Building larger
vehicles with such accerelation rapidly becomes difficult if not
impossible. 

> It feels counter-intuitive adding empty space to a ship to increase its hit
> points (and indirectly increasing its mass) so that the frame can support it.
>
> So G compensation is the reason big military ships are buildable with 
> Traveller
> performance? They would otherwise be unbuildable using this formula. 
> Shades of Star Treks structural integrity field here, though on a smaller 
> scale.

The square-cube law makes large *anything* difficult (and makes really,
really *small* stuff difficult as well). 

For example, if you keep the same proportions, double the size and the
all areas is squared (4 times as much), but all volumes is cubed (8
times as big).

Structural strength depends on cross-sectional area. Stresses depend on
*mass* which is a *volume* dependent function. Thus, twice as large has
4 times the strength trying to deal with 8 times the stress. And thus
it's only *half* as strong. 

This means the structural supports need to be twice as thick. Of
course, this adds even *more* mass, so you have to go *beyond* twice as
thick to get the same structural strength.

And you quickly hit a point where even if you make the object *solid*
it won't be proportionally as strong. So you have to switch to
materials that are proportionally stronger. 

And at some point, you run out of stronger materials. If nothing else,
molecular and even atomic bonds only get so strong. Thus there is an
ultimate limit to size.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1269
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